This blog was created for 2 main reasons:
- To serve as an outlet for civil discourse among parents, adminstrators, employee and others at WLM who are concerned about the children in the wake of the fire and management of the complex decisions that followed.
- To make these "issues" public and viewable by those professionals who are charged with making many of the difficult decisions that affect our children.
Personally we would like to thank our friends and acquaitances who supported us. We anticipated taking much more grief from those who would begrudge parents their right to voice concerns about their precious children. I am glad to say very little of this ocurred. Instead we were supported even by those that may have had their lives complicated by this "blog".
We would like to specifically recognize the many posters who did literally hours of work to make sure others had the latest information. Whatever your notions of those who participated on this blog, these posters should be thanked for their dedication. They are contributors, not bystanders and they make WLM and the Mansfield Community a better place for us and our children.
We will leave those most informative posts up for the time being. At this point, this blog can serve as a source of specific information should people want to use it that way. If you wish to share any new information that you believe is relevant you can post it, but it will be delayed pending email review.
Thank you. Francis and Kathleen Craig
FYI: A downloadable file of many of the questions that were raised is available under the "Collected Questions" link in the upper left hand corner of the blog site. I know I probably missed a few questions. I will try to update this later and post a final summary of themes emerging from this week.
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click on the "comments" link at the bottom to post.
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(update 4/27)
Also I want to direct your attention to some recent informative posts by Rob Wolbert and Darice Baker regarding recent communications with adminstrators and health officials.
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(update 4/26)
REMINDER: This blog is NOT for anonymously venting, bashing or alarmist writing. It was put up as a place for civil discourse and clarification. PERIOD. I again encourage you to sign your name as my wife and I have done.
I know some folks maybe confused, saddened, conflicted or angry. Please share your concerns and questions, NOT your character assessment of teachers, parents adminstrators etc. Getting personal takes away from from any authority this board may be granted as a place to review legitimate questions/concerns of those that care about the children and employees of WLM.
The school is well aware of this blog now and if you are open in your concerns/questions you are may to receive an answer. (for example, see Ms. Dutchess's comments today, and my posts regarding the HEPA filter and Air & Soil Testing).
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(update 4/25)
TEST RESULTS AVAILABLE TO PUBLIC: The school has made available copies of all the air and soil sample results for parents or interested others. You can pick them up in the main office. They are on the table with the sign in/sign out binders.
HEPA FILTERS: From our conversation with Ms. Sargent today, we were told the HEPA filters were brought back today because quite a few people voiced concern over the absence (including myself). While the air quality inspector does not believe them to be necessary right now (personal conversation), for many people they would rather have them running just in case
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(update 4/24)
Let me say this first since we have to make the first leap of faith and post... Kathleen and I deeply appreciate all that has been done for our children at WLM. We have tried to give more than we take from WLM and we believe that we have been pretty good about that. Our children love WLM and were very unhappy with us today when we explained that they would not be attending this morning because we felt unconvinced that decisions were being made in which their health was the single overriding concern of adminstrators, especially Dr. Kalata . We are not eager to make anybody's "naughty list", nor is anyone at WLM on ours. We are interested in our children's health first and the quality of our community of which WLM members are so important. Only toward these ends was this blog was opened.
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16 comments:
I have contacted the Environmental Protection Agency, Penn State University and the Pennsylvania Department of Education via email on today's date. I believe all of your questions should be addressed. Don't feel guilty about having your questions. They are all legitimate. The members of the Southern Tioga School Board accepted their positions with the knowledge that parents will ask questions. If they are not answered, parents will ask again. If they're still not answered, we'll ask someone else. I don't mean anything personal and don't mean to attack anyone, however, don't tell me how to feel. Don't tell me not to worry. There is a serious lack of communication here. We want answers YESTERDAY, not today. I can only advise the people in charge of the decision- making regarding our childrens' school to take our concerns seriously, not dismiss them and stop telling us everything is fine when there are apparent signs that indeed, everything is not "fine." I'll let those interested know how I made out.
Darice M. Baker
Proud employee of Aliah Baker, Galen Baker, Taylor Sember and Dylan Sember
I have received a response from Cristina M. Schulingkamp, MSEH, Environmental Engineer, Radon/Indoor Air Program Coordinator for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency. She has forwarded my email to Judy Gostin of the Department of Health in Harrisburg. Apparently, Ms. Gostin goes to schools when they have these types of issues and does an inspection. Ms. Schulingkamp stated that Ms. Gostin will be calling me. Another email from Ms. Schulingkamp stated that she read through your "Blog Comments" and replied to the one that spoke of Federal Air Quality Guidelines being "most stringent". She simply wrote, "False." and further went on to state that guidelines are just that, "guides", and that they are the MINIMUM. She continued to say that Hepa Filters won't do much good, however, getting rid of the (stuff) that is causing the symptoms will.
Darcy
We encourage anyone and everyone concerned about this situation to call the district office and ask to speak to Joe Kalata.
Don't use the excuse that you don't have the number, here it is 638-2183!
Please do it for the kids and the teachers.
In response to the individual that is concerned about the counseling services that are provided at W.L. Miller School, I would like to comment on the facts. The information that was written was 100% incorrect. I,Annette D. Dutchess, the school counselor at W.L. Miller School, visited each classroom in the building at least once on Tuesday and most classes I checked on twice. We also had 3 additional counselors on site on Tuesday, April 24th.
In addition to this, a packet of grief/loss and feelings activities were given to each classroom teacher in the building. The teachers were encouraged to use these to start off the day. Due to my schedule, I am not able to teach every classroom regarding this issue.
Furthermore, ALL educators at W.L. Miller school know that I am available for counseling. I go above and beyond on a daily basis to help ANYONE that is in need of counseling services. I would appreciate from this point on that I not be "blogged about". The number at school is 1-570-662-2192. Feel free to call me about the program that we offer at W. L. Miller School anytime.
Annette D. Dutchess
School Counselor
Here's the response I got from the Department of Education...
Ms. Baker:
The Department of Education has received several calls from parents who are upset about the conditions in the Warren L. Miller Elementary School.
We are aware that eight rooms are closed off because of damage due to the fire.
The Department has been in touch with the district and we have been told that the district has been and is working on the problem.
The superintendent, Mr. Joseph Kalata, is aware of the calls being made. He is away from the district today (Thursday)
The District has asked us to refer any parent/citizen calls to Penny Kroll at the district (570-638-2183).
Thank you for making Secretary Zahorchak aware of your concerns.
I hope the district staff will be able to provide you with any information you may need.
Stephen Fisher
Basic Education Associate 2
School Services Unit
I think I like the response from the Department of Environmental Protection better. The "pit" in my stomach will most likely subside after another agency or two has conducted their own tests...under their own standards. The asbestos things really scares me. It's kind of like getting a second opinion from a doctor thing for me. I will let Mrs. Sargent know I've contacted them and that hopefully, we'll all be really relieved after have read the U.S. DEP regulation testing results. I hope it doesn't take too long. Darcy
I would like to respond to previous bloggs.
These are facts I know regarding Miller Elementary. Since we resumed school on Tuesday I have seen 10 to 20 students per day.During the winter months I see 50 to 60 students per day. 3 students were sent home on Wednesday, 1 for vomiting, 1 for a headache(parents request) and one asthma child who had a Dr appt. I am not "overwelmed with sick kids" as previously stated. I have not been told to send them back to class if they aren't "too bad" and be assured I will continue (as in the past) to evaluate each students complaints and take care of those needs individually.
I visit classrooms daily and speak with students and staff regarding concerns.
I spoke with the Department of Health today and faxed the air quality report to their environmentalist. They will notify the district office and myself if they have other concerns.
I also met with Dr. Dean Harshbarger after school today and he answered all of my questions. Many questions were concerns of our staff and parents. Dr. Harshbarger is in charge of acquiring the air samples and an independent lab runs the test. He assured me if the school was unsafe he would not hesitate to close us down. He has nothing to gain in clearing our school before it is safe.
I ask you to review the facts, leave the unkown to those with expertise, and continue to allow your child to be educated in a safe and loving environment.
Lois Mays
Miller Elementary
My name is Rob Wolbert. I have two children that attended Warren L. Miller this year.
My children have not been back to school since the fire because my wife and I are concerned about their health and safety. We feel that the school is still contaminated despite the air quality results and find it difficult to believe that the school will not be further contaminated as the clean up continues. At this point, it is my understanding that the air is only going to be monitored until Friday, April 27th.
Today I spoke with several members of the school board including, Kollar, Jaquish, Shull and Erway. I also met with Dr. Kalata for half an hour. All members of the board and the superintendent were receptive to my concerns. I do believe that no one involved would intentionally make a decision that would harm any of our children. We discussed the speed with which the children and staff were sent back to the school, the reasons why other options were not utilized (going to Blossburg or using the high school), further contamination of the school and the lack of a plan to monitor the air quality for the remainder of the school year. I was told that any member of the board and Dr. Kalata would be willing to discuss any concerns any parent has at any time or place and I appreciate the fact that Dr. Kalata stayed to talk with me well past business hours.
Nothing said at this meeting will result in the students being sent to an alternate location at this point. The next board function is at North Penn H.S. in the library on May 7th at 6:30p.m. It would be my suggestion that all concerned parents show up at this meeting. If parents would like to express their concerns sooner, you can call the superintendent. Currently, the school has a 90% enrollment which suggests that the majority of the parents are satisfied with the cleanup. This web site says otherwise. If you truly are concerned, then show up on the 7th. No words will speak louder than your presence.
Rob Wolbert
For others who want to know the facts, check out info about ozone generators.
epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html
EPA does not certify air cleaning devices. The display of this number does not imply epa endorsement.
The article says that ozone may worsen chronic resp. problems.
Ozone health effects:
Decreases in lung function
aggravation of asthma
throat irritation and cough
chest pain and shortness of breath
Risk factors that increase the effect:
activities that raise the breathing rate
pre-existing lung diseases
The air sampling reports that I have seen only show samples from rm.12, 19, the Gym, and cafeteria. Were samples taken of the rooms close to the damaged wing?
Mrs. Dominicks
Mr. Hoovers
Mrs. Salada's rooms
I assume that the air quality was a concern in her room, since she had a hepa machine in her room.
A tragedy like this has brought parents and community together, however when teachers say that parents and other staff members are ridiculous to question the "professionals", this causes adverse feelings.
Isn't that what education should promote? We should do research and question things, esp. things that affect ones health.
I just got off the phone with
Dr. Dean Harshbarger. He is an air quality management official/asbestos management offical for a private company, independent from both the school district and RestoreCore. I will summarize our conversation from my scrawl the best that I can, however, if you would like complete accuracy, he stated that he can be contacted in the morning or after dark as he continues to conduct tests at the school. His phone number is (570) 833-5484.
In regards to the asbestos, he conducts electron microscopy and has found none in the air contained in the school. This refers to the air that the students and faculty are working in. He stated that the part of the school which was subjected to the fire is sealed off and will remain so until the school ends and renovations begin. A certified asbestos removal company called "PDGE" removed the asbestos. He believes the asbestos is currently a "non-issue". However, soil samples will continue to be taken as the water from fighting the fire obviously has to go somewhere. Normal threshhold for soil samples containing asbestos are 400 ppm. The sample results from around the school were around 20 ppm. The fire occurred in an addition to the original school and there was a fire wall there (here's where I got confused while writing very fast...) or else the school district had a company come in to put up a fire wall to contain everything in that section so that the air movement in the fire section is independent from the air in the used section. Dr. Harshbarger will insist this fire wall remain up during the remainder of the school year. Apparently, fire volatiles are created during and after a fire. Some volatiles reoccur after agitation which is why the first thing they did was contain the damaged section. The school was subsequently tested to see if hazardous materials went through the ceiling and into the part of the school currently being used. It did not appear this happended after having been tested several times.
In regards to the demolition crew outside the school yesterday, Dr. Harshberger requested that it be done before getting wet as it was burned material and outdoor asbestos loves water. He also did not want the outdoor material to change the indoor air quality in the school. Also, fire damaged materials are a major source of food for mold. They treated the crawl space with a chemical called, "Microban" which is a water-based chemical that is applied as an aerosol. The crawl space under the school is sealed off at a metal door and door way (?? cant read my own writing) and is done after school hours. This chemical settles after a couple of hours. As needed, the crawl space will be treated again.
The new ceiling tiles were placed at the request of Dr. Harshbarger. He said this was important to maintain the airflow separation. Although he said it appears "economically wasteful" it was covered by the school's insurance and is helpful with the recirculation of the good air. I asked him what he thought might be causing some unusual symptoms such as scratchy throughts, watery eyes, coughing, etc. He stated that the HEPA filters technically "scrub" the air. It makes the air very dry which may cause thirst and dry throats. He will not allow humidifiers as they may result in mold growth. There also may be dust from the installation of the new ceiling tiles which could have caused these types of irritations as well. The HEPA filters should take this out. However, after the new ceiling tiles were placed, he found no elevation in air particles. Testing results also indicated that the mold samples and spore counts were way below normal ambient air results.
Dr. Harshbarger disagreed with the EPA after I asked about the HEPA filters not being very helpful. He stated that HEPA stands for "High Efficiency Particulate Air Filters". Apparently, the EPA designed them to remove 99.9% of all particles in the air.
In closing, I asked him if he would send his kids to the school. He stated that he would, but not if the burned section weren't contained properly, but feels it was. He also said that if we see him walking around the school without a respirator, the school is o.k. He has medical lung issues and will not jeopardize his own health.
Finally, he stated, rest assured, if he finds something unsafe, he will recommend the closing of the school. He will continue to take samples as long as the school district allows it. He recommends continued testing until the end of the school year and feels that the EPA coming to conduct their own testing is a good idea as he believes it is a free service.
Darcy
FYI, I posted the following message on www.healthboards.com last week. Please see the response that follows (this is an unbiased, third party, ex-firefighter with nothing at stake), I hope you find it informative.
My Post>
"On April 13 my childrens elementary school had a fire that condemned 9 classrooms and the remaining building had severe soot/smoke damage. A fire restoration company came in and cleaned for a week and claims the building is fit for habitation. As a concerned parent, I am looking for some help. Can this be a safe environment for elementary age children who touch everything and we all know whatever they touch goes to the mouth? Are their air and soil quality tests sufficient (the test results are Greek to me, I think they tested for asbestos and mold)? Should I be concerned with the dust that is still falling (carcinogens)? School resumed on Tuesday April 24, they had an open house on Monday evening and you could smell some smoke smell and there was light dust on everything you touched revealing a brown to black hand afterwards. I am sure the place was spit polished before the open house and there was still dust, my eyes were burning slightly after the 30 minutes (I can't imagine being in there for 8 hrs.). I haven't sent my children back, but now feeling pressure of them being truant. Does/has anybody been in this situation or can you help with understanding the enviromental safety at stake?+++"
Response>
"my best advice to you would be to call the local area EPA,and ask them any questions you need answers to.in most cases,any residual products left behind from a structure fire are not really anything toxic,BUT alot depends on just what actually burned and if there was anything underlying that was brought to the forefront that was once 'hidden' pre fire,you know what i mean?i would really just call them first and go from there.hopefully this is just the normal lingering stuff that is a result of anything that actually burns.after being a FF (fire fighter) for many many years i saw alot of residual crap that is just left behind from products of combustion.part of that is kind of an oily sooty residue EVERYWHERE,and that smell that can linger for a very long time.it is not actually a toxic situation in most cases,just a huge pain to have to fully clean up from.
Like i said,just make a call to your local chapter of the EPA,they should be able to at least answer some simple questions and refer you to anyone else that may be needed.Even calling your state fire marshalls office could help too.good luck and i hope all is eventually well there.FB"
Sincerely,
Adam White
Proud/concerned husband and father of WLM residents.
Ms. Baker,
Typical fires within buildings will result in combustion products other
than smoke. This includes gases such as carbon monoxide and others
depending on the material that burned. These gases will not linger
after the fire is out and the area ventilated. Other combustion
products may linger. The smoke consists of the visible particulate
matter and organic products of partial combustion which are heavier and
can absorb onto surfaces. Cleaning the smoke damaged areas usually
result in removal of the major portion of these materials. Other areas
that are not visibly damaged by the smoke and surfaces that appear to be
clean can still have absorbed gases on them. Odor is an indication that
trace amounts of combustion products may be present.
An odor does not always indicate a health hazard. The nose is much more
sensitive to detecting this than many air sampling instruments. That
being said though, a comprehensive sampling program should indicate if
the air is generally safe. Since I do not have any other information, I
can not make an authoritative statement either way.
Since students are still complaining of odors and symptoms further
testing with this in mind may point out a culprit. Combustion products
can be adsorbed and slowly released by fabrics, ceiling tiles and other
items. Smoke may have gotten into the ventilation system and adsorbed
into any duct lining material. Again an evaluation including these
issues may answer this question.
I hope this has been of some help.
Thanks,
Bill Dreibelbis
Manager, Health & Environmental Programs
6 Eisenhower Parking Deck
University Park, PA 16802
Phone (814)865-6391
Fax (814)863-7427
Email wgd1@psu.edu
My daughter went to school for three days last week.She came home every day complaining that she was coughing,her chest hurt,and had headaches and the school still smells like smoke.I took her to the doctor today.She has asthma ( wich has not bothered her in a few years) plus she has other health issues. We came ome from the doctors with $250 in medications.She is now on an inhaler every 4 hours and nose spray.I feel that the childrens and the teachers health are at risk.Even though they say that the air quailty is good that still doesn't mean that all is fine.There is still the smell and dust that bothers people.
I believe that the latest response we received from Judy Gostin, Department of Health in Harrisburg makes this a resolved matter for our family:
Mr. & Mrs. Baker; I am writing in response to your recent emails about the Miller Elementary School and post fire concerns. This past week, staff from the PA Dept. of Health (PADOH) have been in contact with school officials and their consultants who have shared information on what steps have been taken so far and have provided current results of asbestos, lead and mold testing. From the information provided,it appears that appropriate actions have been taken to ensure the safety and health of all building occupants after this most unfortunate event. A few of these actions include securing and sealing the fire area, cleaning the rest of the school building, conducting on-going testing for possible air contaminants, and drying the crawlspace. The PADOH will continue to discuss the on-going clean-up and remediation efforts with school officials and all appropriate parties, and review sampling results as they become available.
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